The dumbest error in Banshee

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The dumbest error in Banshee

ebisumartin
Banshee users,

I'm sorry, I know it's considered ungrateful to complain about free
software. However, I simply can't restrain my disappointment and
bafflement that this completely unneccessary and pointless error
continues to exist.

Podcasts are marked read only, causing them to not be able to be
transferred to remote devices.

This bug has already been reported: here:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=631987

In that bug report, someone points out that "Podcast files are marked
read-only by design." Then it follows on with some complicated
explanation of why.

Which completely misses the point. Whether they are read only or not
is completely irrelevant.

The point is that whatever system Banshee uses to manage its files, it
should be able to *actually manage it's files*. I don't care if files
are marked read only, or not, or if a live chicken is stapled to each
podcast.

The point is that Banshee should be able to transfer songs it has
downloaded to the device it is connected to without error. However it
does that, fine.

Right now, the only way I can tranfer podcasts to my removable device
is to run "chmod 777 ~/Podcasts/*" at a command line before each
transfer.

If I forget to do that then for whatever reason, the podcasts are not
transferrable thereafter, even if I run chmod again and try and
transfer them again. I have to manually delete and re-download the
podcasts.

I think this bug frustrates me more than a lot of bugs in other
software because it is so obviously a flawed result, that I can't see
how anyone can justify it's existence.

Alright, rant over. I hope this gets solved some day, because this is
exactly the kind of thing that makes it hard for me to really convince
my friends I'm doing the right thing by using open source.

--
Dave M G
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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

"Andrés G. Aragoneses"
On 11/23/2011 03:26 AM, Martin G wrote:

> Banshee users,
>
> I'm sorry, I know it's considered ungrateful to complain about free
> software. However, I simply can't restrain my disappointment and
> bafflement that this completely unneccessary and pointless error
> continues to exist.
>
> Podcasts are marked read only, causing them to not be able to be
> transferred to remote devices.
>
> This bug has already been reported: here:
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=631987
>
> In that bug report, someone points out that "Podcast files are marked
> read-only by design." Then it follows on with some complicated
> explanation of why.
>
> Which completely misses the point. Whether they are read only or not
> is completely irrelevant.
>
> The point is that whatever system Banshee uses to manage its files, it
> should be able to *actually manage it's files*. I don't care if files
> are marked read only, or not, or if a live chicken is stapled to each
> podcast.
>
> The point is that Banshee should be able to transfer songs it has
> downloaded to the device it is connected to without error. However it
> does that, fine.
>
> Right now, the only way I can tranfer podcasts to my removable device
> is to run "chmod 777 ~/Podcasts/*" at a command line before each
> transfer.
>
> If I forget to do that then for whatever reason, the podcasts are not
> transferrable thereafter, even if I run chmod again and try and
> transfer them again. I have to manually delete and re-download the
> podcasts.
>
> I think this bug frustrates me more than a lot of bugs in other
> software because it is so obviously a flawed result, that I can't see
> how anyone can justify it's existence.

Hey Dave, I don't think anyone is justifying its existence, so calm
down. I say this without needing to read the "complicated explanation of
why" simply because the bug is marked as NEW, as opposed to
INVALID/WONTFIX, which means that it is a valid bug (in the sense of
"this bug exists, feel free to work on fixing it").

Most likely, the "complicated explanation of why" is just meant to be
left in the bug so a developer can know the root cause of the bug and
it's easier for him to solve it.

Does that make sense?

Cheers


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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

ebisumartin
Andres,

Thanks for your calm and reasoned reply. It's commendable that you
didn't lower yourself to my level of heated exchange.

To be honest, my frustration with Ubuntu, open source, and, I'm sorry
to say Banshee, is rather wide right now, so that issue became a
"straw that broke the camel's back" problem.

As I am writing this right now, Banshee is frozen because for some
reason it now freezes every time I try and connect to my remote audio
device. And then it becomes a zombie process that will not die no
matter what kill commands I throw at it, so I have to reboot.

This is just one of many, many, many bugs, hiccups, and problems I
have experienced since upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10 (including, but not
limited to, Banshee, which is one of the key software for me as I'm an
music-phile), so overall I am just sick of constantly battling my
computers for the last few weeks.

I like what Banshee aspires to be, and I am rooting for you. However,
I am just feeling very jaded at the moment. The promise of open source
that I have bought into for the last seven years is not coming to
fruition as I had hoped it would.

So... anyway... I hope these bugs get solved. I hope Banshee becomes
rock solid (and doesn't pull an Amarok and suddenly just throw away
one interface for another).

In the meantime... I don't know. The only thing keeping me sticking
with Ubuntu and software like Banshee is that I'm not sure it gets
that much better on Windows or Apple. Which isn't a great endorsement.

--
Dave M G
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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msx
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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

msx
2011/11/26 Martin G <[hidden email]>
Andres,

Thanks for your calm and reasoned reply. It's commendable that you
didn't lower yourself to my level of heated exchange.

To be honest, my frustration with Ubuntu, open source, and, I'm sorry
to say Banshee, is rather wide right now, so that issue became a
"straw that broke the camel's back" problem.

As I am writing this right now, Banshee is frozen because for some
reason it now freezes every time I try and connect to my remote audio
device. And then it becomes a zombie process that will not die no
matter what kill commands I throw at it, so I have to reboot.

This is just one of many, many, many bugs, hiccups, and problems I
have experienced since upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10 (including, but not
limited to, Banshee, which is one of the key software for me as I'm an
music-phile), so overall I am just sick of constantly battling my
computers for the last few weeks.

I like what Banshee aspires to be, and I am rooting for you. However,
I am just feeling very jaded at the moment. The promise of open source
that I have bought into for the last seven years is not coming to
fruition as I had hoped it would.

So... anyway... I hope these bugs get solved. I hope Banshee becomes
rock solid (and doesn't pull an Amarok and suddenly just throw away
one interface for another).

In the meantime... I don't know. The only thing keeping me sticking
with Ubuntu and software like Banshee is that I'm not sure it gets
that much better on Windows or Apple. Which isn't a great endorsement.

--
Dave M G
_______________________________________________
banshee-list mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/banshee-list  (unsubscribe here)


While it is true Ubuntu is allways evolving and experimenting thus rendering
it unstable, 11.04 and 11.10 releases works really nice, they are very solid
and stable systems (seems Canonical drop anchors for a while).
The problem is Banshee itself but to be fair, the sucking Mono behinds it.
Don't blame Ubuntu because Micro$oft, er, Mono, the day the guys port
Banshee to something not stinking as Mono, Banshee will be alongside
Amarok the best music manager in the GNU/Linux userland.

--
msx

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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

Daniel Hughes
I can see no evidence that the bug in question is caused by using mono.

If you have evidence that this is caused by a bug in mono please link to the bug. Otherwise please stop spreading FUD.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Martin Cigorraga <[hidden email]> wrote:
2011/11/26 Martin G <[hidden email]>
Andres,

Thanks for your calm and reasoned reply. It's commendable that you
didn't lower yourself to my level of heated exchange.

To be honest, my frustration with Ubuntu, open source, and, I'm sorry
to say Banshee, is rather wide right now, so that issue became a
"straw that broke the camel's back" problem.

As I am writing this right now, Banshee is frozen because for some
reason it now freezes every time I try and connect to my remote audio
device. And then it becomes a zombie process that will not die no
matter what kill commands I throw at it, so I have to reboot.

This is just one of many, many, many bugs, hiccups, and problems I
have experienced since upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10 (including, but not
limited to, Banshee, which is one of the key software for me as I'm an
music-phile), so overall I am just sick of constantly battling my
computers for the last few weeks.

I like what Banshee aspires to be, and I am rooting for you. However,
I am just feeling very jaded at the moment. The promise of open source
that I have bought into for the last seven years is not coming to
fruition as I had hoped it would.

So... anyway... I hope these bugs get solved. I hope Banshee becomes
rock solid (and doesn't pull an Amarok and suddenly just throw away
one interface for another).

In the meantime... I don't know. The only thing keeping me sticking
with Ubuntu and software like Banshee is that I'm not sure it gets
that much better on Windows or Apple. Which isn't a great endorsement.

--
Dave M G
_______________________________________________
banshee-list mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/banshee-list  (unsubscribe here)


While it is true Ubuntu is allways evolving and experimenting thus rendering
it unstable, 11.04 and 11.10 releases works really nice, they are very solid
and stable systems (seems Canonical drop anchors for a while).
The problem is Banshee itself but to be fair, the sucking Mono behinds it.
Don't blame Ubuntu because Micro$oft, er, Mono, the day the guys port
Banshee to something not stinking as Mono, Banshee will be alongside
Amarok the best music manager in the GNU/Linux userland.

--
msx

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[hidden email]
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/banshee-list  (unsubscribe here)


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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

"Andrés G. Aragoneses"
+1

( DFTT )



On 11/26/2011 06:01 AM, Daniel Hughes wrote:

> I can see no evidence that the bug in question is caused by using mono.
>
> If you have evidence that this is caused by a bug in mono please link to
> the bug. Otherwise please stop spreading FUD.
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Martin Cigorraga <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     2011/11/26 Martin G
>     <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>         Andres,
>
>         Thanks for your calm and reasoned reply. It's commendable that you
>         didn't lower yourself to my level of heated exchange.
>
>         To be honest, my frustration with Ubuntu, open source, and, I'm
>         sorry
>         to say Banshee, is rather wide right now, so that issue became a
>         "straw that broke the camel's back" problem.
>
>         As I am writing this right now, Banshee is frozen because for some
>         reason it now freezes every time I try and connect to my remote
>         audio
>         device. And then it becomes a zombie process that will not die no
>         matter what kill commands I throw at it, so I have to reboot.
>
>         This is just one of many, many, many bugs, hiccups, and problems I
>         have experienced since upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10 (including, but not
>         limited to, Banshee, which is one of the key software for me as
>         I'm an
>         music-phile), so overall I am just sick of constantly battling my
>         computers for the last few weeks.
>
>         I like what Banshee aspires to be, and I am rooting for you.
>         However,
>         I am just feeling very jaded at the moment. The promise of open
>         source
>         that I have bought into for the last seven years is not coming to
>         fruition as I had hoped it would.
>
>         So... anyway... I hope these bugs get solved. I hope Banshee becomes
>         rock solid (and doesn't pull an Amarok and suddenly just throw away
>         one interface for another).
>
>         In the meantime... I don't know. The only thing keeping me sticking
>         with Ubuntu and software like Banshee is that I'm not sure it gets
>         that much better on Windows or Apple. Which isn't a great
>         endorsement.
>
>         --
>         Dave M G
>         _______________________________________________
>         banshee-list mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/banshee-list
>           (unsubscribe here)
>
>
>
>     While it is true Ubuntu is allways evolving and experimenting thus
>     rendering
>     it unstable, 11.04 and 11.10 releases works really nice, they are
>     very solid
>     and stable systems (seems Canonical drop anchors for a while).
>     The problem is Banshee itself but to be fair, the sucking Mono
>     behinds it.
>     Don't blame Ubuntu because Micro$oft, er, Mono, the day the guys port
>     Banshee to something not stinking as Mono, Banshee will be alongside
>     Amarok the best music manager in the GNU/Linux userland.
>
>     --
>     msx
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     banshee-list mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/banshee-list  (unsubscribe here)
>
>
>
>


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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

"Andrés G. Aragoneses"
In reply to this post by ebisumartin

I understand your feeling. I felt it myself. But lately I've come to
realise that when this happens, we're just being a victim of our own
"technology-versionitis". Like Martin C. says in his first sentence (the
only one that may be worth it), past releases of OS and tools are
normally very mature and stable. And it's actually thanks to users like
you and me, which like to test the new stuff and report the problems,
that these things end up being fixed.

So, yes, it's a kind of a paradox but to really benefit from open
source, you have to stick with the old, or rather, the not-so-new. Which
means that you cannot really contribute that much to the community
(because by using the old, bug reports are not that useful) if you do
this...

So what I do is take a hybrid approach: use not-so-new systems for my
daily usage, and for my family members (and friends who trust what I
install to them) and only play with shiny toys in a separate "sandboxed"
environment.

Cheers!

On 11/26/2011 04:33 AM, Martin G wrote:

> Andres,
>
> Thanks for your calm and reasoned reply. It's commendable that you
> didn't lower yourself to my level of heated exchange.
>
> To be honest, my frustration with Ubuntu, open source, and, I'm sorry
> to say Banshee, is rather wide right now, so that issue became a
> "straw that broke the camel's back" problem.
>
> As I am writing this right now, Banshee is frozen because for some
> reason it now freezes every time I try and connect to my remote audio
> device. And then it becomes a zombie process that will not die no
> matter what kill commands I throw at it, so I have to reboot.
>
> This is just one of many, many, many bugs, hiccups, and problems I
> have experienced since upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10 (including, but not
> limited to, Banshee, which is one of the key software for me as I'm an
> music-phile), so overall I am just sick of constantly battling my
> computers for the last few weeks.
>
> I like what Banshee aspires to be, and I am rooting for you. However,
> I am just feeling very jaded at the moment. The promise of open source
> that I have bought into for the last seven years is not coming to
> fruition as I had hoped it would.
>
> So... anyway... I hope these bugs get solved. I hope Banshee becomes
> rock solid (and doesn't pull an Amarok and suddenly just throw away
> one interface for another).
>
> In the meantime... I don't know. The only thing keeping me sticking
> with Ubuntu and software like Banshee is that I'm not sure it gets
> that much better on Windows or Apple. Which isn't a great endorsement.
>


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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

msx
In reply to this post by Daniel Hughes
2011/11/26 Daniel Hughes <[hidden email]>
I can see no evidence that the bug in question is caused by using mono.

If you have evidence that this is caused by a bug in mono please link to the bug. Otherwise please stop spreading FUD.


I'm sorry, I was talking in general and not specifically related to this bug (my bad, a big OT).
BTW, after completely removing Mono (including Banshee and Tomboy) Ubuntu 11.10 is a *very* different system,
more stable than before and lot responsive.
From my own research on several other distros there's a manifest pattern of bloatness when Mono is present in the
system, not to mention the awful thing of seeing .exe files when doing a PS.

I love Banshee so +1 for it.
Mono really stinks, several thousand -1 for it.

Regards.

--
msx

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Re: The dumbest error in Banshee

"Andrés G. Aragoneses"
On 11/26/2011 04:30 PM, Martin Cigorraga wrote:

> 2011/11/26 Daniel Hughes
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     I can see no evidence that the bug in question is caused by using mono.
>
>     If you have evidence that this is caused by a bug in mono please
>     link to the bug. Otherwise please stop spreading FUD.
>
>
> I'm sorry, I was talking in general and not specifically related to this
> bug (my bad, a big OT).
> BTW, after completely removing Mono (including Banshee and Tomboy)
> Ubuntu 11.10 is a *very* different system,
> more stable than before and lot responsive.
>  From my own research on several other distros there's a manifest
> pattern of bloatness when Mono is present in the
> system, not to mention the awful thing of seeing .exe files when doing a PS.
>
> I love Banshee so +1 for it.
> Mono really stinks, several thousand -1 for it.
>

As you replied in a slightly less troll fashion, I'm going to just care
to reply.

We thank you very much that you like Banshee, so do we.

But Banshee without Mono wouldn't be so great as it is now.

Really, complaining from a user perspective about mono is like if I
complain about the internal CPU a TV uses. Does it work? Yes. And let us
the developers tell you that seriously Mono works really well, and .NET
is a very well designed development platform. When there is a
development platform that is better than .NET, I'll be the first one to
switch.

So stop spreading FUD about Mono if you're user. Microsoft is not a
plague or a virus, it's a company that sometimes may do good or bad
things, and this is one case of a good one. The other cases in which it
does bullshit don't necessarily need to contaminate this product. And
let me remind you that very little code from Microsoft is actually
inside the Mono platform (and actually, I think the very little bits
that are inside it, are not used by Banshee anyway IIRC).

Thanks for being there as a user and applaud Banshee's goodness.

As a developer, I'll welcome your criticism over .NET or Mono when you
bring technical arguments.

Cheers,

  Andres

--



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